Keith - THANK YOU for all that you did to ensure the safety of your passengers and your crew! Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? Other pilots chimed in calling him for what he was. That's movie crap. I live under the approach and departure path to MIA, so I constantly have ATC audio playing in the background. There are legal charges. I wish there was a portal where we could interject and tell the FAA to shove one up this guy's six. Were all here to check each other and keep our airspace safe. He should have declared an emergency when denied entry into Bravo. My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. Best Flight Tracker: Live Tracking Maps, Flight Status, and Airport Delays for airline flights, private/GA flights, and airports. ATC should have called the Airforce on him. . The main reason is safety to clear an area around the airport for takeoffs and landings. Pierce, April 6, 1859. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. I hope he stops making bad decisions before he no longer has the ability to do so. This incident is recorded as all radio communications between planes and ATC are definitely recorded as a matter of public record:https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. Hundreds could have died. When Can You Deviate From an ATC Clearance? Thanks to anyone who knows. This is a willful/intentional violation of FAR and ATC instructions. This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. You'd be surprised how many Pilots act like they are the only plane an ATC is working even tho she is nonstop talking sequencing Arrivals to one of the top 5 busiest airports in the USA!!! I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? She should have vectored him out after he refused. I looked back over it, and finally saw the one you mentioned, somehow missed it before. Oh my gosh! We all know the pilot was wrong but. maybe he's tired of the attitude of that particular class bravo. She refuses and he petulantly retorts back. Most aircraft are owned by a business, a corporation, a leasing company, or someone who rents their aircraft out. This guy make me sick!!! He risked lives at the time of this incident, and in the future if pilots aren't seriously punished for this kind of behavior. Is spoiled B short for "Spoiled Bravo Airspace" or "Spoiled Brat" or "Spoiled B." :). The ONLY reason aviation is the safest form of transportation is precisely because everything is taken so seriously. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. LAS: "N1NR, possible pilot deviation, advise to contact Las Vegas approach. The FARs couldn't be more clear on this situation. Washington, DC 20591 A pilot will be given priority in an emergency situation, and they will need to submit a report of this emergency within 48 hours to the manager of the ATC facility if this is requested of them. Time that controller needed for other pilots who HAD to be in the Class B. I can't believe anyone would defend his behavior Is it that hard to skirt around or over it? And, when pilot deviation notification procedures were first added to the ATC manual in 1995, the procedure and phraseology were substantially similar to the pertinent provisions of Notice I can almost guarantee you that this clown had the certified letter from the local FSDO awaiting in his mailbox, still smoking by the time he arrived home. Plus..help us if weather becomes a problem, as it did yesterday..with vectors around threatening weather. Calling the cops on "someone suspicious" has become a way to say "There's a minority person and I don't like something about them so I called the cops on them.". And he had to know that ATC comms are recorded. How reassuring and interesting your post is, Eldo. There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. The pilots is always in command, not the controller. That kind of thing happens every day. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. - attitude, attitude, attitude, and I'm not talking about the aircraft. I'm flying." In aviation terms regarding "pilot deviation", the controller is telling the pilot that he is being reported, and there will be an investigation by the FAA. * See for example https://youtu.be/mUSUXnr4dSo, Subject: HQ: Request 2020-007191 under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. Ive dealt the entering class B many times. We cannot possibly explain reasoning behind every denial of service at the time it happens. In fact, I encourage that. I know this Controller and she is good at her job. I suggested they speak with the father and ask him if perhaps, she was a spoiled B. I thought I was cleared, I have an ill 6 year old on board. How hard would it be to just clear him through? We will also go into the consequences that could occur if you were to get into trouble for this. I was interested in being a Pilot but it shocks me how awful other pilots can be, they even revert to ganging up or saying a terrible thing because of a mistake another pilot made as if they "the great one" has never made a mistake in their life. Even if you dont have a good understanding of ATC terminology, the situation should be easy enough to make sense of. - hold until otherwise instructed In contrast, the pilot of N731NR exhibited an unrepentant anti-authority attitude. It's clear the supe was not impressed by how the controller handled the situation either. PS: The trauma was from being hit with luggage that fell out of the overhead upon disembarking. It will get figured out. I'm a Retired LAS Controller. This leads the pilot to tell ATC to clear him. Sometimes its not possible to accommodate requests, either because of airport or supervisory/FAA edicts or because of systemic procedures or because of current workload. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. This is why the notion of sport and private pilot licenses are a bunch of BS. Well you guys been calling all kind names to this pilot, and you probably right, but he made the mistake or not to come inside of Bravo,the tower job now os to try bring everyone safe in,then let FAA deal with it. Have you ever said That's a terrible thing to say, that a pilot should lose his license. If this pilot had any sense he would have self reported because his flight recording through the area shows something different than what he thought. Unfortunately, that's not what happened. Dad got home that night after his charter. Undiagnosed tumors and the like can lead to emotional regulation problems and impaired judgement. This is about aviation. - entering B without explicit auth "N731NR (angrily): "I'm not ready to copy. The information contained in this record should be the most current Airworthiness information available in the historical aircraft record. I didnt realize I had violated class B airspace, can I get vectors out? then I would bet my life that none of us would have ever even heard this story. Avoiding Pilot Deviations.pdf (1016.81 KB) Pilot deviations can occur in several different ways. Yes humans make mistakes, and that is why aviation has the strictest protocols outside the nuclear industry. Good luck. Not a cool move on his part. Although VASAviation transcribed it as "you're being that," it sounded to me more like this pilot started to retort with, "YOU'RE being an ass--", then caught himself and said, "That is not appropriate language.". Cut off a commercial airline at the beginning of his short final resulting in a missed approach and go round for him. I hope this guy is ready to hear a lot of "unable VFR services" or "radar services terminated, squawk VFR, frequency change approved" when they recognize who he is again. And an ATP should be a few thousand. They got a full 2/3 of their pilots certificated!! Both pilot and atc handled the situation poorly. After that Dad called a friend in the FAA out of the STP and reported the now private pilot as a hazzard and requested a re examination. She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. He refuses to leave airspace even though he never had clearance to fly through it, and he refuses to take down a number because hes flying., Hopefully an investigation is done and this guy loses his license. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986? Almost would have met you that day but water saved me. Gotta love how times have changed Dad was a FBO, Commercial, Instructor, Multi, Aerobatic, crop duster and Instrument. Please inform me prior to conducting any service demanding fees.I would prefer the request filled electronically, by e-mail attachment if available or CD-ROM if not. If you do not, then you might face losing your certificate, which isnt what anybody wants. I once ate spices in the Old City. First, when aviation is involved we ALL give a f. People's lives are at risk. I remember many times that pilots would argue with me about instructions. Looks like we found the co-owner of Wife Approved, LLC. All I do is shake my head and smile. The FAA can pull your medical for almost any reason, and you will need some pretty expensive doctor's appointments to get it back. Talk to your psychotherapist. Just to offer a slightly different perspective on all of this, I am wondering if there's a medical issue here, in which some sympathy might be warranted. N1NR answers back that "he's flying". "LAS: "Nobody clears you through the Bravo but me. That award goes to the pilot of PK8303 who ignored multiple warnings about how he was too high and fast, and then tried to land with gear up before killing almost everyone on board. As we have previously mentioned, the penalties for pilot deviation can be very severe, and the action itself can often be deadly. like this one. I dont know what will fix that. Good job on hitting a new high USA! You have successfully joined our subscriber list. I fly in the busy Chicago airspace as a private pilot and the vast majority of Private pilots are as professional as the air transport pilots, and are often much less complacent in and around the class B and class C airspace. It should be a few hundred. 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . Then you are free to call the tower on the landline when you land and find out why you were denied clearance or complain about poor services. MuckRock users can file, duplicate, track, and share public records requests If an ATC clearance has been obtained, there is no pilot that is allowed to deviate from the given clearance unless an amended clearance has been obtained, there is an emergency, or the deviation is in response to an air traffic alert and collision avoidance system resolution advisory. I was working the ER In Jerusalem and this belligerent teen was being kept there for observation post head trauma. There's many, many reason why a plane is not allowed into Bravo space. ALL pilots know you have to hear the magic words, Cleared into Brovo. That being said, its not just a comfort level thing or willingness issue - its often a safety Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. She was far better to him than a lot of NY approach controllers are to good pilots on a good day (and I like NY approach, by the way). I'll give you the number when you're ready to copy." . In the next couple of weeks this is what he can expect: 1 Phone call with FAA to get pilots side of the story. Typically, as tower, I don't care about the details, I've got stuff to do. All I do is shake my head and smile. They have your lives in their hands. MuckRock is a non-profit collaborative news site that gives you the tools to keep our government transparent and accountable. Pilot deviation is a serious incident, and there can be lots of different outcomes depending on the exact situation. I too am amazed at the next tower's apology. It should have gone 1NR, please exit the Bravo. Thank you.Respectfully,Geneva LaingManagement and Program Analyst, Management & Administrative Support Team, AJV-W640, Northwest Mountain Regional OfficeATO Western Service CenterResource Management Group2200 S. 216th St., 3rd Floor, 3N-458Des Moines, WA 98198Office: 206-231-3337Geneva.Laing@faa.gov, [Your new Mission Support Services Logo! There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe.
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